You need to use 100% silicone, none of that acrylic silicone or any of that stuff that sounds fancy (but doesn’t work long-term). :), It was actually Feb., 2002. Additionally, I think the alcohol, when sprayed on the older silicone will help soften and bond the two together. I am trying to find a way to absorb this difference on the backside of the wall… but if that doesn’t work, here is my question: can I pad the whole wall with a piece of 1/4″ CBU? It is a Mildew resistant 30 minutes shower ready caulk. I don’t know if this is the best place to ask this, but it is shower and drain related…a problem. This ensures the fleece will be 100% covered in thin-set. That stuff is indestructible! They are all the same. Curing silicone basically means letting it dry. Then I will apply redguard to it? Schluter has said in past that 100 percent silicone is an acceptable substitute for Kerdi Fix, though, and I was quite surprised at just how well that did in my comparison testing. and for bonding to glass and plastic. Either the technique above or you can use schluter valve seals on them (just google it). Water doesn’t run sideways. Plumber advised me to have my tile guy build it up with mud. Floor is concrete. It will not be technically waterproof until you install the silicone and tile. Hey Roger, just bought your kerdi bundle and read the kerdi book top to bottom. It's been full of water since 2001? Your blog is sent from bathroom remodel heaven, if such a place exists . My DH used a 1/8" x 3/16" V-notch trowel the first day . (Picture 2). should i take it back, and buy 100% silicone? You can click on any of these photos to view a full-size version. You gotta like my page. (Picture 4). At all wall junctions, apply KERDI-BAND or KERDI-FLEX as described in steps 1-3, ensuring a minimum of 2" overlap on to â¦ I've used a lot of Kerdi fix for its intended purpose of sealing membranes and fixtures, and have never tried to caulk a tub surround with it. I just tiled a floor this weekend based your great tips. Red Devil 8164012 100% Silicone Sealant Architectural Grade, Bronze, 9.8 oz, Case of 12 By Red Devil product price $47.97 & FREE Shipping. I don't blame you for looking for a better price. :). View Full Version : Silicone vs Polyurethane on Kerdi. Schluter does allow the use of 100 % silcone with Kerdi for closing pipe holes, etc. Schluter does allow the use of 100 % silcone with Kerdi for closing pipe holes, etc. Any suggestions for adding/improving the waterproofing about the cut holes at this late date? Using the flat side of the trowel, firmly press the banding into the mortar to ensure 100% coverage and to remove excess mortar and air pockets. Crafters and artists may find that this clear silicone sealant is a great choice for sculpting and picture frame assembly. No, you do not. Henry ® 880 Tropi-Cool ® Stop Leak ® 100% Silicone Spray Sealer is a premium, easy-to-use, 100% silicone aerosol leak sealer, formulated to provide a permanent leak-proof seal on a variety of surfaces. Nvm that’s a yes… this is an awesome thread. No considerable moisture is going to get to that area anyway. And the dam would still function for all the other water running down the face behind the tile. I have one question though which I’m unclear about. Is there a good solution to this problem or do I have to go through that entire mess of removing all the tile on the floor and fix what the contractor failed to do? Certified by NSF to NSF / ANSI Standard #51.Safe for incidental food contact. It is also noteworthy that most silicones labeled as 100% RTV, are still not food grade. They will not suggest its use for primary seaming or for areas that might be constantly wet. I used durock ultra light foam board, so hopefully it doesn’t absorb any of the little bit of moisture that gets behind the tile anyway. I know what you mean about the bulge. Hi, First of all, great name. I know I can use silicone around the opening behind the tile so water behind the tile can wick around it, but how do I prevent water from getting behind the substrate? As an example, the popular silicone sold in hardware stores is GE012A (aka GE 1) which contains Octamethylcyclotetrasiloxane (aka D4). They will not suggest its use for primary seaming or for areas that might be constantly wet. It is an exterior wall, and I plan on using a liquid topical membrane like redguard for my walls. So that brings my next question: do I need to do more than simply pack the new (and hopefully correctly sloped) mud deck onto the existing tile? Most formulas are mildew-resistant and have inhibitors to slow discoloration (but all caulk gets ugly over time). The material does not yellow over time and has high resistance to oxygen, ozone and UV light. Pure Silicone Caulk . There is a little foam thing inside my escutcheons, but I have little faith in it. 100% WEATHERPROOF: This 100% silicone formula offers protection from water damage, providing a reliable seal in areas prone to weather and water exposure 7-YEAR MOLD-FREE PRODUCT PROTECTION: Protects against stain-causing mold and mildew growth BUY NOW Rule #4. I have no spare tile to match what is in place, and it is quite solidly bonded as far as I can tell. Thanks for your help. Great site my man. I just want it to last a long time. From 100% silicone sealants for metal, concrete and gutters to insulating foams designed to fill large gaps and cracks, our specialty products provide reliable, airtight seals for tough projects. It will run around anything in the path downward. The only two things I can think of offhand. On silicones, since Laticrete came out, I love it. I can't imagine that it would be toolable and it would likely just be a â¦ 3) I have access panels on the back side of the wall. OK, but what about the silicone dam behind the tile? But here’s a picture of a baby hedgehog instead, just so you don’t feel jilted. I am getting ready to apply thinset and mesh tape to all the seams. No thinset and tape between the backer and tub. The plaster guard is removed before the trim pieces are put on. We still have the Kerdi box, it was built in 2001, no leaks. We are putting in a Wedi system shower and have already done the tiling, using a flexbond-type thinset and Bostick urethane grout. It’s about 1.5″ in diameter. If you use 100% silicone it peforms very well but I have used urethane nostly. When the water gets nasty, every few months, we pump it out with a tile saw pump. However, once you get those installed the only way water can get into them is to fly sideways – it doesn’t do that. Okay, don’t slam it up there, place it up there carefully and press firmly to ensure full contact. Similar question for what to do about the plastic that goes down to floor under the “tub legs”. The Kerdi bonded very well at the top where the cement board was primed and prevented it from sucking the moisture from the thinset. Silicone caulk is commonly known as the rubberized caulking, because the seal will be flexible and have a rubber feel throughout its life. Well, in an effort to save me from losing more space in my already tiny “elf closet”, our carpenter framed our tub wall that holds our plumbing with a 2×4, instead of a 2×6, which was great, because we could leave the stupid little closet alone. i was there in august and drank a bottle of water out of that little box , quite a sales pitch schluter boys came up with...... it is a bit raggedy i'll say got a pic of it ill see if i can find it , drop it on here, Dave, get some Corona into that box before I get there next fall. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile. While I normally always advocate to follow manufacturers recommendations I have always removed plaster guards from every valve I’ve done a shower in. I’ve decided to have my privacy violated and start putting things on Facebook. So………….. 1) Is this too insignificant to worry about? You can silicone between the tile and backer around the hole, but there’s no need to tear tile out to do it. 100% silicone will perform better than âextendedâ. No considerable moisture gets down there either, any damage normally derives from water wicking into the drywall when backerboard is not present. Acrylic latex â¦ My son told me all the cool kids are doin’ it! It's a regular old brown corregated cardboard box about 12x14 -- 8 inches high, maybe. My point is, your shower will more than likely have held that water you have plugged up there without that KerdiFix. Whether you have utilized a topical waterproofing like Hydroban or Redgard (liquid) or Kerdi (sheet), or you’re using the traditional method with a membrane behind your substrate, the answer is silicone. They are meant to discard. You need to use 100% silicone, none of that acrylic silicone or any of that stuff that sounds fancy (but doesnât work long-term). Been a while. It comes with its own seal, but it’s not kerdi, obviously. It’ll be fun. Dave has been watering it ever since. At the bottom of the tub legs I just cut is off at the flooring. They are polymeric materials that exhibit the viscoelastic behaviour, which we generally call as elasticity. Favored the Bostic. If you get enough silicone on there you’ll be able to run your finger along the perimeter of the cutout after you install your tile to smooth the silicone. My question is what happens next? I do not have a picture of that. Ever have one tank that nothing survives in? If you want to, pull the top of the tile back off and check to make sure you have complete contact with the silicone bead and the shower substrate. There's is an epoxy offered by a competitor that works OK. Once of our clients gave the (Please DO NOT email me with the punchline to that joke!). Kate. IMHO the Kerdi fix at every seam IS overkill. So the thought is to simply add a second drain where the first one SHOULD have been in the first place. There are only 2 places I worry about with Kerdi and sheetrock. 4. I have already installed my tile around my shower valve, tub spout and shower spout. :shrug: It would depend. Our patented Polymer Bonding Process (Patent No: 10,577,521) The Ultimate Guide on How To Bond/'Glue' All Silicone Types and Products Silicone is the go to polymer when cushioning and/or sealing is the objective. For the purposes of most shower applications silicone is silicone. Re: Are silicone mats really esd safe? . 2. This way eliminates it. Whether you have utilized a topical waterproofing like Hydroban or Redgard (liquid) or Kerdi (sheet), or youâre using the traditional method with a membrane behind your substrate, the answer is silicone. My shower project is coming along (slowly but surely), but I have a question regarding one of my walls. Everything in this bathroom (and this house) has been do-or-die to the tune of fractions of an inch. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Do I absolutely need to use kerdi fix around the mixing valve and tub flange or can I use 100% silicone? Leaky caulk is not to be ignored! What this does is create a dam of silicone around the perimeter of your cutout. But wait, I just sealed the gap where the tile meets tub flange, also with silicon, so there is no way for the water to drain into the tub! No. ;). Brilliant! once made a cardboard box waterproof with the kerdi. —doesn’t bond to thinset (wet or dry), right? Previous post: How to remove a shower base, Next post: Tile and Stone Sealers (Part 1). For best results, sleep with your silicone pad adhered to your skin. Water is for sissies. I'm not a chemist and I don't know if it'll react badly with Kerdi :shrug: All thoughts are welcome. Yes, you can. This caulk is 100% silicone and Incredibly strong for creating crack-proof permanent sealing around the shower and â¦ 100% silicone . Amazing stuff, but expensive. ), Waterproofing fixture cutouts in shower tile. But yes, it will work for your situation as well. Silicone is a material that is found in adhesives, caulk and sealants. when you sheetrock or cement board a tub surround, do you extend the sheetrock or cement board over the tub lip and onto the top ledge or do you just end your sheetrock or cement board right above the tub lip and then let the tile extend onto the tub ledge? I assume thinset and screws to fasten? Really. Those are; the tub / kerdi connection, here I typically sillycone this in after kerdi is up, and the inside / outside 3 plane joints. I am still a little confused about how to waterproof around the holes. The shower was never built quite right. Thinset bonds to urethane not silicone. I am in the middle of shower remodel. We can distinguish silicone from rubbers by the atomic structure. This creates the same waterproof dam on the backside of your substrate as well. If it’s 100% silicone there isn’t (for all intents and purposes) any difference at all. Thanks for sharing all your knowledge with us. And I’ve done a lot of moens. Thanks John, everyone.....In a shower, primary concern to me is sealing around the shower valve, in case any water gets past the escutcheon. Professional Tile Installation Contractor Fort Collins and all of Northern Colorado. If you are using the traditional method and have your waterproof barrier behind your substrate (like in these pictures) you’ll need to silicone the perimeter of the barrier to the back of your backerboard. :D. Getting raggdy from the condensate of the ice cubes when we fill it with bottle water and ice, but hate to throw it out. However, when it was the plumber’s turn, we realized that this meant that the mixing valve for the tub/shower was too deep, and it now sits proud of the shower wall. good luck getting that ostrich saddle off your hands…. You may have answered this elsewhere, but I was reading your traditional shower waterproofing guide and had a quick question. Apply KERDI-FIX to the substrate and spread evenly with an appropriate notched trowel. I feel like I keep finding out things I should have done differently after it’s a bit too late. Can you just silicone the part where the cement board meets the drywall Instead of taping? The silicone dam is for the purposes of blocking water running down the wall behind the tile from getting into that opening. As I have a brand new tube of the stuff. Yep, I was present when that box was constructed. Silicone caulk is expensive but worth the cost due to its flexibility and long life. To seal a PVC pipe with silicon you must first obtain one or more tubes of silicone, then prepare the PVC pipe. Remove the cover and cut your kerdi just around the outside of the holes for the screws or bolts. Alas, I have one final question. This multi-purpose leak sealer waterproofs and protects gutters, skylights, flashing, roofs, RVs, campers, windowsills, foundations, boats, cars, concrete, glass, metal, and more. Roger, When water gets behind your tile (and water WILL get behind your tile!) This will ensure there will be full contact between the tile and substrate. We chose to do this method but you can also buy special Schluter tub spout covers. Unlike some adhesives, silicone sealants must cure. When cured and washed, the product meets the requirements of FDA Regulation No. This silicone works great,used to fix a hole in metal roof around pipe,just layered it to fix a 1.25 inch gap .I would buy again,and will here soon Read more Am I supposed to apply silicone to that space or just caulk? It’ll be a mess – just like picture 5. Curing silicone isnât necessarily difficult, but it does require patience. I’ve never tiled over existing tile. I always use backer rod if I want a sealant to stay put. 4) I have bought larger OD escutcheons where available, but some not available. Should I silicone the opening you mentioned on the cement board section? For the gaps between backerboard and drywall, do you also tape and mud those? The product is really only part of it, the application is just as important. I’ve used mapei’s aquadefense. We are using tile for walls and mosaic for shower floor and I want to know if any additional waterproofing materials other than backer board need to be applied before or after the backer board and was told not to put any holes in fiberglass coating so is there is need to do that that at all for any reason? 3. Both rubber and silicone are elastomers. I haveoften seen tiled bathrooms where the two or threebottom rows of tiles were loosened by water which crept up under the tiles fromthe bottom! Have a few others that did not last near as long. That has nothing to do with waterproofing, you need to tape and mud them to maintain a single solid surface that does not expand and contract independently. The only big downside is that it's not paintable. Seems there is a ' pinhole ' opportunity for a leak, these are the areas I use a little sillcone, I'm talking a fingertip dab over the corners only. Do you trim it and where does the edge go relative to the flooring – presumably not below (in this case the drywall was already removed for the legs, so we put backerboard there.). I just don’t want to create a mold sandwich. It seems that very little water would penetrate that small exposed annulus (3/8″ wide) of tile face that is inside the projected radius of the silicone dam. Do I need to do anything with the vapor barrier that is being used for the outside of the house? Nope, use it. I am now wondering if the 12×24 tiles will hold securely with All Set. Is this sealant food grade? Just install the new mud deck and tile away. The cutouts for the shower head, shower or bath controls and any other fancy stuff you saw in that magazine. Schluter Kerdi fix was recommended earlier in the thread. With that much work at that point it would actually likely be easier to replace the floor. I live in michigan where the winters are cold if that helps with the answer. You do need to figure out something to do with the outside edge, where you’ll see and extra 1/4″ of wall (the edge of the backer). In addition, silicones have more special properties than normal rubbers. Schlüter-KERDI-FIX is an elastic installation adhesive made of an MS polymer. It seems that your method above is perfect for this type of installation, but before I go hacking this together, I just want to confirm that this is the correct course of action. But, perhaps when everything is put together, that isn’t really a concern? Dave, so a urethane such as Sikafkex will skin over like a caulk and not collect dirt etc?????? Food grade silicone is a non-toxic type of silicone that doesnât contain any chemical fillers or byproducts, making it safe for use with food. Moen states in their instructions to keep the plaster ground in place during installation of the trim and that it should sit flush with the finished tile. One week later i was able to peel out the Kerdi bands off the kerdi boards. You don’t need to do anything over it, the deck mud won’t bond to it anyway (which actually helps). You can, but you still need to tape and mud it. Unlike in other elaâ¦ My next project is to tile a shower using Kerdi membrane. 1) Is the thinset applied up to the opening in the substrate and then scraped away (like a 3/4″ gap)? I know it will make the tub deck 1/4″ shallower on that side, but is there any reason that would not work (or not to do it that way) if I am backed into that particular corner? We are renovating our 150 year old house, and in the upstairs bathroom, I found a stupid dead space that, if we rearranged some things, would allow us to have a tub in there. Once you get your escutcheon (the metal cover plate) on there no water will enter through the front of the tile, then any water behind your tile will run around the dam. « Reply #1 on: May 29, 2018, 12:33:28 pm » You can never tell, but the absence of a earth connection & wrist strap connection would indicate that the mat has not been properly designed to create an ESD workstation. Pure silicone will have stronger adhesion, less shrinkage lower temperature application, and stronger resistance â¦ Now all you need to do is shoot a large bead of silicone all the way around the perimeter of the hole. Hey all, With Kerdi-fix at $20 a tube, I want to use something more economical but just as effective. You have no idea the headache you just solved. Kerdi to the tub lip eh..........NICE :) :bow: That's it then, done deal. No need for thinset behind it, just screw it to the studs through your existing substrate. Use included rubber seal…how to attach to the kerdi? Dunno Steve, I have used silicone and i know it sticks to it. I plan to use a moentrol 3330 Three Function mixing and transfer valve, and of course, the kerdi mixing valve gasket is not big enough. If so, how far? I am wondering what I should do before I even get to the tiling part. GE 1 or GE012A has D4 at 1-5% by weight. If you have kerdi on your substrate and a silicone dam around the opening water is not going to get behind your substrate. :eek: I can assure you I don't keep ice in it unless I have to :wave:, but it is always half full of water. That thing doesnt stick. If so, will the silicone bond? With this 100% silicone caulk, there is no need for nails and staples in many projects. Only thing mentioned ever is silicone, I'm wondering about using polyurethane such as Sikaflex or another. Click here to get an instruction manual for your waterproofing installation. I normally just cut slits in the barrier in the stud bays. You can also use KERDI-FIX to waterproof where the tub spout comes through the KERDI-BOARD. The lowest portion of the floor is about 6″ further in than the drain, so in order for all the water to be out of the shower at the end of the day, one has to squeegee it toward the drain. 3) What’s the mesh tape about in the pic? I have plenty of room under the floor to access the drain and pipes there….what I’m curious about is an idea of simply adding a second drain into the floor. Do I just paint the redguard right up to the holes? Once everything is on water isn’t going to get through it. In a nutshell, caulk is used in a tub or shower enclosure to keep water from creeping up,under or around the tiles at joints between tile and the tub or shower pan,or on joints where walls meet. Now once you get your hole cut out in your tile flip it over so you’re staring at the back of it. ... Used it to cover the Schluter screws on the Kerdi board with Kerdi band per instructions. 8.1 Schlüter®-KERDI W A T E R P R O O F M E M B R A N E F O R S U B S T R A T E P R O T E C T I O N Application and Function Schlüter®-KERDI is a crack bridging water- proof membrane made of soft polyethylene, . (Picture 1). I'd always be reluctant to sign on when others recommended the use of silicone in Kerdi applications, but now I wouldn't hesitate to use that, either. :topicoff: but since I finally found you Dave, if you were to caulk/seal an exposed joint ie:tub meets tile, corner... in a tub surround or shower, what exactly would you use, silicone or what exactly??????????? Regarding my shower pan liner, is it okay to tack it right on the foil faced foam sheathing (into the studs of course), or should I take all that down and just leave the studs and fluffy insulation? It will just back up and eventually (over the years) saturate the substrate! The FDA also considers use of silicone breast implants to be safe. They just flat out don't leak. So, should the kerdi membrane have a hole cut in it the same size as the temporary plastic piece on the valve, or should I remove that piece and cover up the valve completely, leaving only a very small hole for the shower trim to attach to the valve? 2) I’m using Kerdi over Hardi. It seems to me that it's a better product/chemical. They, and others are relying on a tested, proven 2" overlap seam. I could tie them together below the floor….BUT….I have no clue how to make sure I have a seal around my existing membrane so as to not have problems with water doing what it does so well and go where I don’t want it to go. Also, am I supposed to thinset and tape the space between the cement board and lip of the tub? Ok ok ok Kerdi fix it is, doing this ( with a popsicle stick ) I feel totally secure about using Kerdi on sheetrock wet wall. Should I attempt some sort of additional or extended silicone dam from the back? The problem with holes in a waterproof shower is that they make it not so waterproof. :clap2: :yeah: :cool: Thanks again to everyone..this site is da bomb.......... :shades: vBulletin® v3.7.4, Copyright ©2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. For the purposes of most shower applications silicone is silicone for drains vents! And preferably up to the Kerdi name ) is, your shower will more than likely held... Would still function for all the cool kids are doin ’ it a urethane such as Sikaflex another... Tube, I think the alcohol, when sprayed on the “ plaster guard ” ….. enough silicone. To slow discoloration ( but all caulk gets ugly over time ) silicones labeled as %! Moisture is going to get an instruction manual for your waterproofing installation Kerdi fix was recommended earlier in the downward. Top to bottom isnât necessarily difficult, but what about the silicone dam from the back of it just! 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